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	<title>Comments on: Light Rail SMACKDOWN: Dublin&#8217;s LUAS vs. SF MUNI&#8217;s T-Third</title>
	<atom:link href="http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/</link>
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		<title>By: 1968 Geary &#8211; Third &#8211; SFO Subway &#171; Burrito Justice</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-2109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1968 Geary &#8211; Third &#8211; SFO Subway &#171; Burrito Justice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:24:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-2109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] an aside, here&#8217;s a fun smackdown comparing the T-Third to Dublin&#8217;s theoretically more expensive [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an aside, here&#8217;s a fun smackdown comparing the T-Third to Dublin&#8217;s theoretically more expensive [...]</p>
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		<title>By: rad kd</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1984</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rad kd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[not to mention the luas can cost up to 4 euros for a maximum of 90 minutes of travel. muni however, is 1.50 dollars for several hours or travel time and unlimited transfers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not to mention the luas can cost up to 4 euros for a maximum of 90 minutes of travel. muni however, is 1.50 dollars for several hours or travel time and unlimited transfers.</p>
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		<title>By: gimme a brake</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1965</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gimme a brake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correction:  Luas stations are a half-mile apart on average, but most stations are further apart than the average except in the city center.  That&#039;s still double the distance of the average distance between T Third Street Line stations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction:  Luas stations are a half-mile apart on average, but most stations are further apart than the average except in the city center.  That&#8217;s still double the distance of the average distance between T Third Street Line stations.</p>
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		<title>By: gimme a brake</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gimme a brake]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 00:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you believe that Connex, sorry Veolia, actually generates an operating surplus running Luas, think again.  They would be counting their subvention along with farebox recovery ratio.  Reduces vehicle use along corridor?  No, sorry, the fuel prices do that (between $8 and $9 per US gallon, back during the summer; it&#039;s currently $5.49 per US gallon).  Not to mention, Line B of the Luas re-used a rail line closed in the 1960s, which is supposed to save money; but it didn&#039;t save that much.  The trams had 22 accidents with cars in their first six months of operation, as well.

You can&#039;t compare T Third with the Luas.  The Luas is a bad substitute for commuter rail, which should have been built instead.  Many of us knew it would become a victim of its own success; the trams are 131 feet long and 7.8 feet wide, and the intent is to squeeze 360 people into that little tube.  (Before that, they were operating 98-foot-long trams, with a stated capacity of 256 passengers; this is the same as squeezing 128 people into a 48-foot bus, which is the US standard length for a city bus IINM.)  You&#039;ve also distorted the ridership figures; the Luas is two lines, not one.

Incidentally, the T Third has high platforms, which jacks up the capital costs.  There was also probably a lot of utility relocation necessary, due to the tracks being built along the street sides; the line also requires a lot more traffic signal priority hardware and software due to this.  (More capital costs.)  Stations are also a quarter-mile apart on average; on the Luas, they are an average of two miles apart (so the average speed of the Luas is actually comparably pathetic while the T Third is remarkably fast; the Green Line, the one you cited for average speed, was built on the old railroad right of way, so that&#039;s an apples/oranges comparison in many respects).  Also, the T Third vehicles have couplers, making it easier to build a longer train; the Luas vehicles have no couplers, apart for some emergency drawbars that are used only in the instance of a tram breaking down, to push or pull the broken-down tram.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you believe that Connex, sorry Veolia, actually generates an operating surplus running Luas, think again.  They would be counting their subvention along with farebox recovery ratio.  Reduces vehicle use along corridor?  No, sorry, the fuel prices do that (between $8 and $9 per US gallon, back during the summer; it&#8217;s currently $5.49 per US gallon).  Not to mention, Line B of the Luas re-used a rail line closed in the 1960s, which is supposed to save money; but it didn&#8217;t save that much.  The trams had 22 accidents with cars in their first six months of operation, as well.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t compare T Third with the Luas.  The Luas is a bad substitute for commuter rail, which should have been built instead.  Many of us knew it would become a victim of its own success; the trams are 131 feet long and 7.8 feet wide, and the intent is to squeeze 360 people into that little tube.  (Before that, they were operating 98-foot-long trams, with a stated capacity of 256 passengers; this is the same as squeezing 128 people into a 48-foot bus, which is the US standard length for a city bus IINM.)  You&#8217;ve also distorted the ridership figures; the Luas is two lines, not one.</p>
<p>Incidentally, the T Third has high platforms, which jacks up the capital costs.  There was also probably a lot of utility relocation necessary, due to the tracks being built along the street sides; the line also requires a lot more traffic signal priority hardware and software due to this.  (More capital costs.)  Stations are also a quarter-mile apart on average; on the Luas, they are an average of two miles apart (so the average speed of the Luas is actually comparably pathetic while the T Third is remarkably fast; the Green Line, the one you cited for average speed, was built on the old railroad right of way, so that&#8217;s an apples/oranges comparison in many respects).  Also, the T Third vehicles have couplers, making it easier to build a longer train; the Luas vehicles have no couplers, apart for some emergency drawbars that are used only in the instance of a tram breaking down, to push or pull the broken-down tram.</p>
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		<title>By: TEP proposes good things for Muni. Is this good news? &#171; kfarr</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1512</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TEP proposes good things for Muni. Is this good news? &#171; kfarr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1512</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This is an agency that spent nearly a billion dollars to replace a bus line (the 15) with a light rail system (T-Third) that offered barely any noticeable improvement in service quality, or, by many accounts, a decrease in service quality. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is an agency that spent nearly a billion dollars to replace a bus line (the 15) with a light rail system (T-Third) that offered barely any noticeable improvement in service quality, or, by many accounts, a decrease in service quality. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kfarr</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kfarr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please do! There&#039;s so much comedic potential waiting to be unleashed in that idea.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please do! There&#8217;s so much comedic potential waiting to be unleashed in that idea.</p>
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		<title>By: dr.stu</title>
		<link>http://kfarr.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1288</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dr.stu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 01:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kfarr.wordpress.com/2007/11/23/light-rail-smackdown-dublins-luas-vs-sf-munis-t-third/#comment-1288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I&#039;m ever in San fran I mite whip up a smash hit rap for the t-third]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I&#8217;m ever in San fran I mite whip up a smash hit rap for the t-third</p>
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